Forestry Chronicle Editorial
GREAT NORTHWEST (AM) (CBQ-FM), THUNDER BAY, 13 Jun 06, Reach: 13,000, Time: 07:40, Length: 00:15:00, Ref# 68E3DB-9
Anchor/Reporters: LISA LACO
INTERVIEW WITH JAMIE LIM AND MARVIN PUPEZA
LISA LACO (CBQ-FM): Now, one year ago today -- it actually was the 13th of June last year, the Minister of Natural Resources, David Ramsay, came to Thunder Bay to unveil his council report on forest sector competitiveness. In that report 26 key recommendations, all designed to make the forest industry more competitive.
Now, some of those recommendations were enacted, but still today more mills have closed, hundred more workers have been laid off… hundreds more workers.
Jamie Lim is President of the Ontario Forest Industry Association, which represents the companies in the province. Marvin Pupeza is the Communication, Energy and Paper Workers Union. They're also part of a province-wide coalition. So Marvin's here in the studio. Good morning.
MARVIN PUPEZA (Communications, Energy and Paper Workers Union): Good morning, Lisa.
LACO: And Jamie's on the telephone this morning. Jamie, good morning.
JAMIE LIM (President, Ontario Forestry Industry Association): Good morning. How are you, Lisa?
LACO: I'm good thanks.
LIM: Great.
LACO: Now, OK, Marvin, let's take stock. The past 365 days, how busy have you been?
PUPEZA: Very busy. Myself and other staff and… and local officers from the CEP, it hasn't been a pleasant 365 days, that's for sure. We… we have somewhere in the area… and the numbers I'm going to use are just CEP members in… in mills that have been laid off. And it's somewhere in the area of 3800 in Ontario.
You know, we… we've had total mill closures in… in Kenora. We've got a kraft mill and a machine down in Bowater and Thunder Bay, a full mill in Cascades in Thunder Bay. Domtar, Ottawa: partial mill closure. Cornwall: a full mill closure, Domtar. Aranpack(ph): one machine down in Red Rock. Smurfit Stone (ph), which is a little over a year ago… much more than a year ago, but that was a full mill closure. St. Mary's Paper: 64 people. Weyerhaeuser Dryden on the pulp and paper side: 550 people, and the sawmill closure in Dryden another hundred.
So we're looking at about a 3800-member loss just in Ontario. And then you have to add into that there's other unions in those mills, and there's union, non-union, and… and also management people that are affected.
LACO: Wow. Jamie Lim, is it over?
LIM: You know, Lisa, just… just to put it in perspective, what Marvin has told your… your listening audience, is you know, in Ontario we've had double the mills and double the job losses than any other province in Canada. That's unacceptable.
So is it over? We're not out of the woods yet. And I hate to use a pun like that. But clearly there is more to be done. And I'm not the only one saying that. When Premier McGuinty made the incredible announcement that he did in February, that it took significant action to reduce our delivered wood costs here…
LACO: Mm-hmm.
LIM: …in the province of Ontario, the Premier of our province stood up on February the 22nd and said, you know, I… and I quote, 'I hold these initiatives up as truth, that your fellow Ontarians are standing with you, that there is clearly more that must be done.'
LACO: Like what?
LIM: Well, he was talking about electricity. And you know, that is certainly the second phase, if you wish to say, the second phase of the coalition's work. You know, we… we concentrated the first nine months to a year of our work on delivered wood costs. And once we achieved success in that area, we moved towards electricity.
And I think what's important for everyone to recognize, when you say is it over, you know, I think as northerners we've always thought in terms of cycles. You know, we've just been used to peaks and valleys in the commodity businesses like mining and forestry.
But you know, Lisa, it's different this time. This isn't just a cycle. This is a new global reality for us. And it's going to take significant and fundamental long-term shifts in government policy. It's not going to… band-aids aren't going to work; short-term policies aren't going to work. This is going to take a total re-thinking of how we work with resource-based industries in the province of Ontario and in Canada if we're going to compete globally. And electricity is one of those key tools.
LACO: So Marvin, talk to me about electricity. I mean, like you… you get together with your… with your fellow union people across the… the province. You meet with the mill owners, the company owners and things like that. What are they saying about the high cost of power? What are they saying about the impact it's having on them?
PUPEZA: Well, what they're saying is also what they're saying in the… in the Forestry Coalition. The coalition is… is a group of municipalities, Chambers of Commerce, industry, First Nations, labour, who meet sporadically -- excuse me -- to… to deal with some of these issues. And you know, the coalition, as Jamie has indicated, has been successful in reducing the fibre cost by five dollars.
Now the focus is going to be on electricity, and I'm calling it the… the 15/45 plan. What… what the coalition is looking for is, going back to January one, an immediate rebate of $15 per megawatt hour.
Right now the industry average is around 65 megawatt hours… $65 per megawatt-hour. And for the industry to be competitive, it has to get down to 45. So the… the coalition suggestion and the plan and what we're putting forward through this phase of the… of the program, and what we're going to be talking about at the rally tomorrow morning, or tomorrow afternoon, is getting that down to $45.
Now, electricity's a complex issue. There isn't any… any one plan that can be applied to a sawmill, that can be applied to a newsprint operation or a pulp mill. So those details have to be worked out, and that's why we're saying that, while those details are being worked out, the $15 should go in place, retroactive to January one, all the details worked out. But in the end what has to happen, and it has to happen very, very soon is that… that cost has to get down to $45 a megawatt-hour.
LACO: Jamie Lim, is that possible? Is that part of what you're asking for as well?
LIM: Oh, absolutely, Lisa. I think what we all have to recognize as citizens in Ontario is that electricity is used as an economic development tool across the world. You know, it attracts… cheap electricity attracts investment and attracts jobs. And AMPCO, the Association of Major Power Consumers in Ontario, had a report done by NAVIGANT(?) that… that clearly stated that, because of Ontario having the second-highest electricity rates in… in… in North America, the Ontario industry is putting… is being put at a distinct and growing disadvantage when it comes to competitiveness. This isn't OK.
And your own Dr. Mizani (ph) from Lakehead University did an excellent report called The Economic Impact Analysis of the Northwest Forestry Sector. And in that report he clearly describes how other jurisdictions in North America are using cheap electricity to… to attract investment and to take away that disadvantage when it comes to competitiveness.
And I think that as northerners we recognize that, you know, we… we've always had to struggle for economic development tools to… to keep what we have and to attract new investment. And cheap electricity, Lisa, is absolutely the key for prosperity in northern Ontario.
And we can't let, you know, public policy create a re-orientation of the province's economy. We need to keep our… our… our jobs in northern Ontario. That's where we need to keep them. And we need cheap electricity to do that.
LACO: Now, we've been following this story, I mean, since the coalition started. We've heard about the pricing… regional pricing strategy, those kind of things, using power as economic development. It took you a while to get the ear of the provincial Minister of Energy then, who was Donna Cansfield. Now… and she was going to take a look at regional pricing this summer, I do believe.
But now you've got a new minister who today is probably going to be talking about nuclear power. So where does this fit? Jamie?
LIM: Well, Lisa, I think it's important that, you know, you pick up on what Marvin said. And you know, because he's bang-on. This isn't about one solution. Like, it's not a one-size-fits-all that… that's going to solve all of the electricity woes. You know, there are regional power rates that could be used; there's block power rates; there's extending the traditional rate offer.
So there are… like, we've given at least, you know, seven or eight possibilities that could work in different regions across Ontario. We need the government to take leadership now and to do the right thing. The Premier of this province did the right thing in February by lowering our delivered wood costs.
And you know, we had a commitment back in September from Minister Ramsay when he was in your hometown of Thunder Bay. And he said that we could expect significant electricity announcements within a month. But then we know that Minister Duncan was shifted. We have a new minister. So that created a little bit of a lag.
Well, now we have Minister Duncan back in the portfolio. This isn't new to him, that this is nothing that should be considered shocking. So we need action. You know, we don't need anymore studies. We… we have significant studies out there that show us what needs to be done. We just need someone to do it.
And I also want to mention the… the 15/45 plan that Marvin's referred to would cost this government in 206 $140 million, and then in ongoing years it would cost $200 million. They have made investments like that in other sectors in this province every year.
And that type of investment, you know, a $200 million investment, would have a significant return to the prosperity of northern Ontario because it would keep the sector competitive, it would keep the jobs in place, and it would continue to allow our forestry sector to… to contribute the $2.3 billion in taxes that it contributes every year, as well as the wages and the other prosperity that's generated from this sector.
So I think it's an investment that has a significant benefit and return for this provincial government, and I hope they make it.
LACO: Now, Marvin, there was a… there's a sense of urgency in what you and Jamie are saying. I mean, I… there's an undercurrent when you… when you're talking to me this morning that… it's got to happen soon.
LIM: Mm-hmm.
PUPEZA: I… I can't put any proof before you this morning, but I believe there are board meetings that are taking place, there are going to be board decisions that are going to be coming down quite quickly, as to whether the industry -- and, I don't know, pick one of them in the operation -- whether they're going to continue to operate or not.
You know, we're seeing a 91-cent dollar, which is having a major impact…
LACO: This is happening at the same time.
PUPEZA: At the same time. And… and that's compounding the problem. What… what we have to do is, at least on the electricity side, is get everything down to a level playing field.
You know, and it is a complex issue. You know, let's look at just the idea of converting the coal fired to gas. You know, you've got the operations in… you know, Atikokan (ph) and Thunder Bay. And… and people much knowledgeable in the areas of electricity are telling me that, for conversion to clean coal, would cost about five dollars a megawatt-hour. So take that cost from $30 to $35. But a conversion to gas is going to cost $90.
So does that make any economic sense? You know, and that is just one small component of the whole spectrum of… of electricity. Is there… you know, it… it's urgent, you know. That's why we're doing what we're doing tomorrow with the rally, and…
LACO: What are you doing tomorrow?
PUPEZA: What we're doing tomorrow is we're having a rally at city hall. And we're going to be passing out buttons. I have one here with me.
LACO: I want to see it.
PUPEZA: I… I'm… you're the first to have one.
LACO: Oh-oh-oh-oh!
LIM: Marvin, I want one!
(LAUGHTER)
LACO: We'll make sure you get one, Jamie. It's beautiful. But I mean, like it… it's our forest, right there on that button.
PUPEZA: There it is. Yeah.
LIM: Oh, is it the Keep People Working?
LACO: Yes.
PUPEZA: It's the Keep People Working button.
LIM: I love that banner.
PUPEZA: Yeah. It is… it's quite a striking button, actually.
LIM: Mm-hmm.
PUPEZA: And Lisa's putting it on right now.
LACO: I am indeed.
PUPEZA: And…
LIM: I need some of those for Toronto, Marvin.
PUPEZA: Yeah, OK. We'll get some up to you. Sure.
LACO: So you're having a rally tomorrow. What is it you want people to do?
PUPEZA: We would like people -- and you know, the… the rally's being organized, something similar to what we did with the town hall meeting a couple of months back. Our locals, Locals 38X, 39, 40, 41X, 257, and 259, along with the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 1565, Iron Workers Local 759, and the Power Workers Union, are kind of hosting this thing. But I don't want people to have the impression it's just a union event. We want everybody to come out, bringing the kids.
We're going to ask people to sign a letter to the Premier, asking him to _[2J_[H implement the 15/45 plan. And with that, once people fill out that letter, put their signature on it and fill in the pertinent information, we will provide them with a hotdog and a soft drink.
LACO: Now, Jamie, you're taking this… the next step then, as well, through… through your organization. I mean, like this is not happening in isolation here in Thunder Bay tomorrow.
LIM: Oh, my. No. Lisa, this… you know, the Ontario Forestry Coalition that's been alive for the last 365 days -- and who can believe a year has gone by already -- has been… I… I've never worked with a coalition like this.
And I'm glad Marvin says this isn't just a union event tomorrow. I mean, you've got, you know, your municipal representation there. You've got Chamber of Commerce. I mean, this is about everybody in the north recognizing that our main priority has to be to keep people working.
And the coalition, Marvin and the mayors, have been so driven, so focused and so persistent over the last year. And I can tell you without their efforts, without us working in a unified way like this, I'm quite confident that we would not have achieved the success we did in reducing delivered wood costs.
And I truly believe that with spokes people like Mayor Power and Mayor Peterson and Mayor Canfield and Marvin, that we're going to see the same success with electricity. Because quite frankly, we can't afford not to succeed.
LACO: Thank you both for talking to me this morning.
PUPEZA: Thank you, Lisa.
LIM: Thank you, Lisa. Have… I wish I could be there tomorrow, Marvin.
PUPEZA: I'll have an extra hotdog for you.
LIM: Thank you.
LACO: (Laughs)… Jamie Lim is with the Ontario Forest Industries Association; Marvin Pupeza with the Communication, Energy and Paper Workers Union. They're both members of the Ontario Forest… Ontario Forestry Coalition.
*****
WORDS: 2653
Transcript Order: 52168 Id: 68E3DB-9 Sent: 13 Jun 06 03:03PM
